Curse

Gregslot · May 28, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Hello everyone.
I was going to start a thread asking what you people liked to do in Guild Wars, but i presumed the answers were going to be: DOA farm, The Deep, Urgoz, Fow, UW. Because these are the places that you can play with lots of people and get lots of golds (gold itens, or raw gold).
But then giving another thought about it i realized that the reason i was asking, was because im tired of playing the same classes at these places (except Fow and possibly UW), and why god, why is that? Because nowadays the players no longer play to have FUN at these places, the very proof of this is the way we see people playing. For example, at The Deep, the gameplay got so mechanized that the party window must follow the 134134134222 formation (YES! Formation!), this type of attitude gives no room for any other type of gameplay. You must allways play as a Renewal Nuker, allways play as a W/A with shove and a icy weapon. I mean, wtf?! Where is the fun on that? Do we really need to resume ourselves to only 4 classes at these places?
The problem its not that there isnt another better way, is that players consider the other classes inferior (wich is a sad fact). This is getting so drastic at the point that whenever people see other classes at these players they say "get out of here you noob, there is no place for a assassin at the deep". I dont know about you, but i feel unconfortable by seeing people giving this bad image of the game for newcomers.

So i have been thinking on other ways to do these missions, not only to show that the other classes dont "suck", but to let other types of characters to play these missions, wich will end up beein more fun and etc etc.
If anyone would like to help giving ideas and/or testing im sure this will end beeing profitable for us all.

So far i have been planing to add a ritualist communing/restoration (for the room you cant cast spells), a dervish for aoe dmg/tank (onis, carps, etc etc)
Suggestions are welcome.
Thxs

RSGashapon · May 29, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

I'm all for variety, but I think it's a lost cause at this point. People, in general, demand cookie-cutter crap for all the Elite areas. If you don't play the way they want you to, then you either play by yourself with the AI or you don't play period.

Gregslot · May 29, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Well you can think "yea that is never going to change so i might as well give up"... OOOORR... you can start thinking "Holy mother fo heavens, he is right! Lets do this"

Zinger314 · May 29, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Would you rather complete The Deep in 2 hours with a well-crafted group or complete the Deep in 5+ hours with a lackadascial group?

Njaiguni Blaze · May 29, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Hi, lemme introduce myself: I am Mr. Cookiecutter Hater.
I enjoy FoW alot and use my main char there, my mesmer. Usually I am the only mesmer around in the european server. Before I got my KoaBD title, I hardly got invited or got ppl to join, but I must say I am more useful than any Renewal Nuker, SS or Tank around there. Reason why? 3 skills: Hex Eater Vortex, Shatter Hex and Backfire. I don't know if you'd like to know some builds for the mesmer, if so, I'd be happy to give some. Usually you can't go wrong with the Domination Line, Res Chant and Auspicious Incantion in your build. Also, if you're doing one of these lite areas again, gimme a whisper. My IGN is Nolani Blaze.
Greets, a fellow cookiemonster (I eat cookicutters)

Zinger314 · May 29, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Hi, lemme introduce myself: I am Mr. Cookiecutter Hater.
I enjoy FoW alot and use my main char there, my mesmer. Usually I am the only mesmer around in the european server. Before I got my KoaBD title, I hardly got invited or got ppl to join, but I must say I am more useful than any Renewal Nuker, SS or Tank around there. Reason why? 3 skills: Hex Eater Vortex, Shatter Hex and Backfire. I don't know if you'd like to know some builds for the mesmer, if so, I'd be happy to give some. Usually you can't go wrong with the Domination Line, Res Chant and Auspicious Incantion in your build. Also, if you're doing one of these lite areas again, gimme a whisper. My IGN is Nolani Blaze.
Greets, a fellow cookiemonster (I eat cookicutters)

And for the 10 seconds each one of those skills are on recharge you...?

Brianna · May 29, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

This is a lost cause, people will not think outside the box, maybe 1 in 1000 people consider it lol, Cookie-cutter will be the way to go until Gw2 where things like this might not have the possibility to exist.

I have considered it but never played any (outside-the-box-builds) because mainly what zinger said, Cookie-cutter builds are usually just more well crafted and better for that instance.

Overall its just Irrelevant, pointless,etc. The only reason people really change up builds for elite areas is because they want something different, but not many people do, or care.

Drequlies · May 29, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I have to agree, I once spent over 3 hours trying to get into a group with my Paragon in the Kurzik elite mission, Urgoz. My Paragon is no wimp. I have completed every other mission in the Cantha with masters and have worked hard on my build. Should I not have the same opportunity to play as everyone else?

Gregslot · May 29, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Hi, lemme introduce myself: I am Mr. Cookiecutter Hater.
I enjoy FoW alot and use my main char there, my mesmer. Usually I am the only mesmer around in the european server. Before I got my KoaBD title, I hardly got invited or got ppl to join, but I must say I am more useful than any Renewal Nuker, SS or Tank around there. Reason why? 3 skills: Hex Eater Vortex, Shatter Hex and Backfire. I don't know if you'd like to know some builds for the mesmer, if so, I'd be happy to give some. Usually you can't go wrong with the Domination Line, Res Chant and Auspicious Incantion in your build. Also, if you're doing one of these lite areas again, gimme a whisper. My IGN is Nolani Blaze.
Greets, a fellow cookiemonster (I eat cookicutters)

Thats what im talking about!
I use a mesmer too and i rock the casbah at... well... anywhere! But i use Echo instead of hex eater vortex, so that i can use any other skill i need (also use blurred vision, empathy, spirit of failure)

Zinger314 i have been noticing all your posts on the past few weeks and you allways sounded negative, i woudnt expect anything else from you. I wont even bother convincing you to change your mind on anything

Njaiguni Blaze can you think on any good build for mesmers at the Deep? :/

Give ideas people!

vdz · May 29, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Just did the Deep and yer people cant think for themselves. They just Ctrl-C / Ctrl-P builds from wiki or what so ever. Monk MUST be either HB / WoH / LoD / LoD WITH ps and Healing seed. What i did was when they asked for build i just pinged what they were wanting to see and after that i loaded another build (prot build with ZB). And i can tell you it worked so much better than those copied builds they were using. My tank didnt even went down a single bit. After a while i pinged my build and they were silent.... And im 100% sure that if i pinged the build in the first place they would have rage kicked me.
About 80% in the deep think they all figured it out but the opposite is the case.
You wont be able to change this, they're simple to hardheaded or no brainers.

Drequlies · May 29, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

I have considered it but never played any (outside-the-box-builds) because mainly what zinger said, Cookie-cutter builds are usually just more well crafted and better for that instance.

Well, I think the problem is that the powerful unique builds often get nerfed for so call balance purposes.

Skyy High · May 29, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

And for the 10 seconds each one of those skills are on recharge you...?

=/ What does a nuker do whilst waiting for his meteor showers to recharge?

HawkofStorms · May 29, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Really, if you want to experiment in high end areas, you really need a guild/alliance group. If you get 8-12 players who you trust as being "good" at the game, it doesn't matter what they run (as long as, since they are "good" players, the build is competient). You can do it.

The real problem with creative builds is that I'm only going to let them be run by people who I trust. I see SF eles who don't have Glowing Gaze or Fire Attunement all the time. I don't even trust PUGs to run cookie cutter builds properly all the time anymore. See the guy asking how the rune/attribute set up he needed for the Urgoz "sucide farm." If you are too stupid to be able to follow simple instructions like that, no way do I trust you to run your own "leet build."

Zinger314 · May 29, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Zinger314 i have been noticing all your posts on the past few weeks and you allways sounded negative, i woudnt expect anything else from you. I wont even bother convincing you to change your mind on anything

And Njaiguni Blaze's "holier than thou" attitude isn't negative?

For those who have never done Elite Missions, don't just think that you can just take 12 people and kill Kanaxai. You need a plan.

Elite Missions are designed with gimmicks in mind. You need a LoD/HP Monk for the Degeneration areas. You need knockdowns for the Kanaxai Aspects. Just accept it.

Necromancers are just plain better in PvE than Mesmers in high-level areas. Their anti-melee is better (Reckless Haste, Enfeebling Blood), and their damage is better (Spiteful Spirit, Desecrate Enchantments). There is a problem with the Mesmer; wait for the skill updates to fix that. Mesmers are designed for single targets; Necromancers are designed for multiple.

I advise anyone who thinks that they are "better than cookie-cutters" to get a reality check. I'm not saying that cookie-cutter builds are the best, but you aren't better.

On a similar note...no one cares about FoW now. It was hard back in Prophecies era; now, two campaigns later, it's the same as the Realm of Torment without those annoying enviromental effects.

SuperDave · May 29, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Holy mother of heavens he's right! I'm up for anything new and creative.. send me a wisp IGN: Caedo Loki (I have a character for each prof, except the dervish)

Loviatar · May 29, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Would you rather complete The Deep in 2 hours with a well-crafted group or complete the Deep in 5+ hours with a lackadascial group?

long before your time zinger there were people who played for fun and could have 5 hours of adventure not 5 hours of we didnt farm the expected amount of loot per hour.

i would not touch the elitest elite areas with a bandini stick.

i spend more than 90% of my play time in presear as it is much more fun dancing in presear answering *noob* questions or opening the gate or rez sig quest.

too many elitest posers who only want to give the orders and farm to impress the noobs with armor/items most would not recognize and even fewer would care about let alone be impressed.

i still play for fun only

Dryndalyn · May 29, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Would you rather complete The Deep in 2 hours with a well-crafted group or complete the Deep in 5+ hours with a lackadascial group?

I think that it doesn’t matter how long a mission takes, as long as you are having fun doing it.

My husband and I have fought our way from Becan’s Perch to Droknar’s Forge a few times and sure it took about five hours, but it was fun. I still enjoy it.

And yes, Mesmers are capable. I brought my Mesmer one of those times and it was back in the days before the heroes, so we just brought the henchies with us. Well, once we brought a tank with us but he went afk for quite a while because his mom wanted him to come to dinner. But in the end, we all made it through!

If it’s all about gain for you, well, then that's what you are doing it for. You probably don’t find the mission all that fun, but see it as more of a job. It makes sense that you would want the formula builds so that you could be done with it as fast as possible.

But don’t knock others for wanting to have fun and be creative. Some of us don’t care about gain as much as exploring our potential. It’s just a different take on the game. It’s not for everyone.

There are enough people out there that do have this different take on the game and I agree that the cookie-cutter trend can be broken.

It all has to start someplace…like here how about?

Divinus Stella · May 29, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Pugs are for fun not speed, if you want speed forget about necros and mesmers, just get a friend and run 6 SF eles and 2 monks, pretty much as fast as it gets but its also pretty dull.

GloryFox · May 29, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

I think that it doesn’t matter how long a mission takes, as long as you are having fun doing it.

This is the right attitude to have. However extreme conditions in ELITE areas have created extreme party builds. With the advent of HERO's things have gone from bad to worse when PUGing... people forgot party roles, with role-play and the importance of the team rather than the individual.

[Skye] · May 29, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I do those areas once in a while for fun, but most of the time I just do random missions where theres generally a shortage of monks to help people out. I get plenty of loot just playing the game.